episode: Is there medical evidence for miracles? Craig Keener, Michael Shermer & Elijah Stephens, Case Report of gastroparesis healing: 16 years of a chronic syndrome resolved after proximal intercessory prayer, Case report of instantaneous resolution of juvenile macular degeneration blindness after proximal intercessory prayer, Study of the therapeutic effects of proximal intercessory prayer (STEPP) on auditory and visual impairments in rural Mozambique, Delia Knox healed from being paralyzed after 22 years, Sean George comes back after a heart attack, https://guides.library.stonybrook.edu/evidence-based-medicine/levels_of_evidence, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/, https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests, first evidence for the accelerating universe, https://seangeorge.com.au/my-story/medical-details/, phenomenon of spontaneous recovery of heart activity, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/04/06/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-1-summary/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/10/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-2-littlewoods-law/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/24/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-3-georges-argument/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/05/26/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-4-evaluation-premise-1c/, https://www.patheos.com/blogs/secularoutpost/2019/06/26/the-resurrection-of-dr-sean-george-part-5-evaluation-of-premise-a4/, evidence that someone was sick at one time, evidence that they were not sick at a later time, sometime between those two points they claimed that they were prayed for (and don't always demonstrate that they actually were prayed), they used xrays to diagnose it originally, which is not the best for soft tissue. Converted to Pelican theme by Brian Blais. ", Scott Rae: Yeah, so you had to, I guess you had to check your own-. So as you've cataloged these different stories and different accounts, what's been the sort of the breath of the geography that's been involved? The emotional language in the paper is a little unusual for a medical journal, and seems a bit sensationalist. We don't get to choose what our test is. Also, the theists show a profound lack of imagination in coming up with studies that can test the involvement of an agent, while ruling out other effects. Synder's miraculous healing , which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical . The conventional wisdom that we hear kind of over and over again is that the prevalence of miraculous activity, is much more the developing world than it is in the west. The precise timing of Snyders Barbara (Burns) Snyder, age 92, of Elmira, NY, passed away Friday, November 18, 2022 at her home. Bad Apologetics Ep 20 - Miracles & even MORE even NEWER Resurrection evidence, Unbelievable? My initial thought was that , A physics problem from a practice AP test came to my attention, when my daughter was in AP physics this past spring. Moreland: we asked god to give us a really good pool table just like the kind that you find in a pool hall, that isn't a cheap one that if you hit it up it shakes. None of these steps are taken in any of these cases. Craig Keener: Yeah, she came on a fiance visa, which unfortunately took a bit longer than it should have because by the time we finally made up our minds to get together 9/11 happened right when we were getting ready to send the materials in. I mean I, at the beginning I was expecting to find some reports of different kinds of healings that had already been collected in the booked. Keener quotes a study that showed that half of the physicians studied said that they had seen what they consider to be miracles. [4], Following the announcement that Gordon Gee would retire as President of the Ohio State University effective July 1, 2013, speculation arose that Snyder, the former Provost and Executive Vice President of Ohio State, could succeed Gee. Likewise, Americans are quite prone to believing in the potential occurrence of miracles. What surprised you? Synder's miraculous healing, which unfolded more than 30 years ago, was apparently so shocking that even her doctors have written about her seemingly impossible medical turnaround. There is nothing even close to an arm growing back. And so that's kind of what prompted me to investigate this issue.. After a year or two of investigation they finally concluded, and we have all of the medical documentation, that no, he had, the way they put it in their letter from the Social Security Administration, "You have received a remarkable return of your visual acuity, therefore, you are no longer qualified for disability." For more information about our use of cookies, our collection, use, and disclosure of personal information generally, and any rights you may have to access, delete, or opt out of the sale of your personal information, please view our Privacy Policy. I think, however, there is a selection bias here -- those people who have theological reasons to expect healings are more likely to broadcast what they consider to be healing events, while others for the same sorts of events will prefer more modest interpretations. He is the author of 24 books and there's a couple of books that I want to talk to you about today, Craig. Scott Rae: So how did, how did she become a war refugee? Now normally somebody's healed, they're still gonna have, their muscles are still going to be atrophied if they've been unable to walk for a long time. We have seen this with acupuncture after well-controlled trials were negative, some proponents decided that pragmatic (i.e. It may not be a dramatic sign or wonder, but it's still an answer to prayer. in economics from Southern Methodist University. Sorry! The statements about being brain dead are all unsubstantiated -- there was oxygen both from the chest compressions and when he was hooked up to machinery. It's a long story. All rights reserved. There may be a difference between the way they look at things now vs the way they looked at it at the time of the event -- which is perfectly explainable under naturalism. Kamil points out that there is a mismatch between the magnitude of the claim and the attention they pay to documenting it. We only have the stories. My oldest grandson loves to run and is always racing ahead, scampering up hills and sliding down ravines faster than the rest. So I guess, what surprised you the most as a result of your study from when you set out to do this to when you got to the end? "can you address the point and not just resort to this other issue that is actually not really in contention? False reporting? The good news will be preached to the poor. Try comparing these claims to, say, the difficulty in confirming the Higgs boson, gravity waves, black holes, or the accelerating universe. She's on her deathbed,'" Strobel explained. Near death experiences are only reported within religions that support dualism. He already was on disability for this. episode: Is there medical evidence for miracles? Strobel, 66, is a former investigative journalist with the Chicago Tribune. The institution that is referenced for the work is Global Medical Research Institute (GMRI) and the documentary about miracles referenced is Send Proof. And so he's already saying in his ministry the Kingdom is being expressed. At over 2 billion Christians, praying many times, if this was a real effect at the 1% level we'd expect millions of documented cases yearly -- certainly a large enough signal to experimentally verify. We know better now, and we often know what the minimum amount of data is to justify a particular claim. The AAUs members include such What problems are you interested in? But if it hasn't been after so many years people say, "Ah, it might just be temporary.". The latter has more eyewitness testimony than we have for Barbara Snyder. The Mayo Clinic had diagnosed Barbara with multiple sclerosis. In principle I believed it, but I was questioning witnesses with kind of a skeptical approach to try to whittle away anything that wasn't necessarily accurate. It would seem that these people are constantly dealing with skeptics, and the easiest way to address it would be to get the pre- and post- medical test data rather than a summary by one doctor, after the fact. The one-on-one treatments, when they show an effect, are confounded by the more intense experience, the one-on-one attention, the group pressures, etc You are adding a lot of psychological elements which make it harder to establish causation. Shermer: well the counterfactual what about the christian families who pray for their loved one who's dying from cancer and they just die nothing happens from the prayer that happens all the time. Please open it and confirm your subscription. Tell our listeners a little bit a how you two met and why you wrote the book, Impossible Love. There are any examples of this, so see https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15166467/ and https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/full-moon-does-not-affect-mental-health-emergency-room-study-suggests as a couple. Each of those people are in the same position as the boy Elijah speaks about and will certainly attribute a God-given miracle to their healing. Craig Keener: In Christian circles it's been received really, really well. well; Barbara is a perfect fit.. 2021 - All rights reserved. It's not biased to be skeptical. She deteriorated over a period of many years, several operations, many hospitalizations, Strobel explained. Barbara Rook "Babs" Snyder is an American academic and president of the Association of American Universities. into our next chapter, said McRobbie, who is also the president of Indiana But Greg Spencer had been going blind due to macular degeneration. In As you begin your hike, set your sights on a new direction. One of the remarkable stories recounted in Lee Strobel's book "The Case for Miracles" involves a hopelessly ill woman named Barbara Snyder, who had suffered for many years with multiple sclerosis. You should receieve a confirmation email shortly. I think a lot of times people will see something as a miracle because we're inclined to believe in miracles, you can also have confirmation bias to say I'm inclined not to see this as a miracle because I just don't think those things happen. He doesn't seem to understand the ways that people can fool themselves. Kamil makes the interesting point that the testimonies of different religions only reflect what that particular religion has as a theological component. Is he thinking (a strawman of) 100% of the time? Why don't we just simply believe. Get Charisma's best content delivered right to your inbox! By this point, she was almost blind and . It was from a different Congo so the person who did that doesn't know their geography. I use some basic principles. If this is the Marolyn Ford case, which I think it is, then we have to consider that she worked in a church for that amount of time, and obviously got prayed for many times with no effect, and only got the healing after many years. 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